I am not sure if british troops would have preferred the lanchester over the sten. For a reason that escapes me, they appear to be quite deliberately ignored when it comes to acknowledging their early contribution to the development of the sub machine gun. This magazine would be used in conversions of MP18 guns, and would also be the model for the MP-38/40 subsequent British Sten gun magazines. – anyway it was too late, as SUOMI was already chosen Although relatively heavy, the only real shortcoming of the MP18,I was its use of 32 round Luger snail drum magazines, which was dictated by the German military. ... Forgotten Weapons. Ian covered the OVP aka Revelli Moschetto Automatico two years ago, but it seems the Beretta M1918 was actually the first Italian SMG to be fielded in the very last stages of the Great War, not the OVP. The drum does throw the balance substantially off to the left side, but it has few other serious problems. In many respects, the Browning design could be seen as a forerunner of the M1 Carbine, filling a similar tactical role. for windage, has muzzle device [compensator? Forgotten Weapons Merch! In the years following Schmeisser would continue to work on the design. Probably because of the lacking evidence and documentation. Would Great War be dragged longer that it was then The .30-18 Browning Autoloading Rifle might be produced during it, see 1st drawing from top: I had Calke`s thesis “Arming the British Home Guard, 1940-1944” but never read it. The M3 was commonly ⦠Looking at this weapon, one would think it is about as optimised as possible for such early times. In trench conditions (especially during a raid), the offset balance would be the last bothersome thing on your mind compared to getting shot or stabbed while changing magazines. This month the subjects include: Browning lock vs others in handguns Best […]. The problem, aside from expense to manufacture, for the Lanchester was its enormous 50-rd. By the end, Western Front infantry were fighting a grenade war. the lanchester was heavy, prone to misfires like the sten, had the same problems with the magazine, plus problems with the firing pin breaking which did not affect the sten as it had a fixed pin. Hello and welcome back to another Forgotten Hope 2 update. The reason for the two parts bolt/striker is fairly easy in german military logic – as I know: 2 years ago | 127 views. Playing next. Why ignore Fedorov “first assault rifle ever”…. According to https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/123837537550/luger-lange-pistole-08-with-trommel-magazine-the Nearly 1 million snail magazines were made before the end of the war. Regarding the bringbacks — I’d imagine that people had a much more “functional” attitude toward guns back then. test as for SUOMI, which this weapon passed even surpassing SUOMI in some respects It used a simple box magazine in place of the Luger drum magazines, ... Forgotten Weapons. Surely, most other countries did not produce sub-machine guns in great numbers, but often have small-scale production or bought foreign designs and using them gained some experience (what sub-machine gun can and can not?). Today we will look at these changes, specifically identifying: â 1st Generation guns from World War One and through the 1930s [â¦] Lanchester submachine gun is a direct copy albeit slightly simplified. https://www.tehnikamaailm.ee/arsenali-pustolkuulipilduja-taas-kodus/ Evolution of the Submachine Gun: Three Distinct Generations, Gardiner/Scott Prototype Grip Safety on an Early 1903 Springfield. Changing weapons requires a lot of things be changedârifle racks on the vehicles, ammunition supplies, web gearâand people have to be trained. Tallinn Arsenal has magazine capacity 40 xor 50 (conflicting sources) It was introduced into service in 1918 by the German Army during World War I as the primary weapon of the Stosstruppen, assault groups specialized in trench combat. At Forgotten Weapons I think the most interesting guns out there are the most obscure ones. If that assumptions are true that might mean is selective fire was copied from Arsenali püstolkuulipilduja which itself was copy of MP 18. In 1915, the German Rifle Testing Commission at Spandau decided to develop a ne⦠The Bergmann MP18.1 represents a milestone both in terms of armament technology and warfare tactics. Owen)(…)”, By the way, staggered row & single position feed box magazine: 8:43. What gives? mean that I have big doubts if I understand correctly: As post-war derivatives shown it was possible to get bigger capacity in normal box magazine, so snail magazine fall into oblivion: SUOMI was chosen after extensive[?] ], used retarded[?] 54:40. (Eesti Püstolkuulipilduja), A.T. (Arsenal Tallinn), last most commonly Sorry I’m getting to be a Lanchester bore – but I am attempting to write a brief history of British SMGs. I’ve read that by mid-1917, the Germans were in no position to tool up for a pressed-and-stamped SMG or a mag for it. I think this is yet another Forgotten Weapons episode that amply demonstrates the need for a âhands onâ evaluation rather than a simple stock photo in a book⦠Iâd seen the OVPâsorry! it was produced in low numbers (~600), however interestingly it was selective-fire. It was a double-stack, single feed design because Schmeisser thought this would prevent some malfunctions that were possible with double-feed magazines (and because Mauser probably had a patent on the double feed box magazine at the time). Initial Portuguese SMGs, as Ian noted briefly in this presentation, were 7.63mm Luger caliber. I try to search out experimental and prototype weapons and show you how they work, in ⦠They had machining capacity and they had Trommel magazines, and they were in a hurry to put firepower in the hands of the assault troops. .45, M3. 1 to SIG Switzerland; the Swiss made model was known as SIG Bergmann 1920. These guns were originally fitted with 32-round drum magazines form the Artillery Luger, but they were almost all quickly changed to standard System Schmeisser box magazines shortly after the war ended. The genesis of the Gewehr 41 gas system is […]. Educational documentaries. At the same time an American, Oscar V. Payne, had at last solved the problem of a ‘staggered row-two position feed’ magazine, designing his XX (20-round) stick magazine for the Thompson submachine gun. – unlike that weapon it was selective fire Commentdocument.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "acff430430b674d994efb30e908ac88a" );document.getElementById("h02d7e7975").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The MP18.1 manufactured by Theodor Bergmann Abteilung Waffenbau was the first practical submachine gun used in combat. Wait, no. – sights must be elevated over magazine (both front and end), however this problem might be avoided, if you abandon normal sights in favor or reflex or similar (no need for front sight, needs only end post, which might be placed in proximity of magazine, thus reducing chance to snag), is: “(…)â harder to stop top-feed design, which use stick magazine (cf. Commentdocument.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "a42967410b2fe531332c1eb31c730804" );document.getElementById("f142928419").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It used a simple box magazine in place of the Luger drum magazines, and this magazine would form the basis for a long series of military SMG magazines. The MP28,II was Hugo Schmeisserâs improved take on the original World War One MP18,I design. The former seems likely given the amount of weapons and equipment from the Bundesrepublik used by Nato-ally Portugal. Bergmann’s prototype used a double-stack double-feed magazine .Trommelmagazine was added at insistence of German officials who had some notion of reducing logistical difficulties even if it meant increased expenses. If any so called advanced primer ignition exists in smg, than it could be by some degree in this arrangement, since I suspect firing pin detonates the primer and the bolt is independent of it so it moves slightly still forward, but in really few tenths of millimeter. The MP-18,I was most likely the first true submachine gun to see combat use, issued in the final months of World War One to German Sturmtruppen. – magazine of diameter x, should be less snag-prone than box magazine of length 0.5*x, simply because circle has no edges Forgotten Weapons - MP-28 - Hugo Schmeisser Improves the MP18. Share to Twitter Share to Facebook Share to Pinterest. So, it looks that lack of any production of sub-machine guns for British forces in inter-war period, backfired. – magazine with diameter x, would stick away roughly as far as box magazine of length 0.5*x (however box only stick to one side) Was that an early experimental KeyMod slot on that magazine? Interestingly, it seems that, with introduction of SIG Model 1930 Brevet Bergmann with magazine sticking to right, SIG predated Bergmann MP32 in that regard. https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/174159467554/the-30-18-browning-autoloading-rifle-the-first. The M3 was chambered for the same .45 ACP round fired by the Thompson submachine gun, but was cheaper to produce and lighter, although, contrary to popular belief, it was less accurate. In fact, not that many MP18s were issued; most assault troops and similar formations carred Mausers, along with flamethrowers, captured Lewis guns, and those benighted “light” Maxims. I think the British Lanchester was an MP28 copy, used mainly by the Royal Navy and so did not see a lot of action. A pistol was for self-defense. You spring up, fire 8 rds to some target, duck in cover and reload. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. guntubearchiver. I suppose that single feed magazine was determinated by the fact that MP-18’s Parabellum drum magazine was also single feed and this simplified conversions. MP18 Submachine gun. nice that its more pleasant than expected. MP-28: Hugo Schmeisser Improves the MP18 August 22, 2017 Ian McCollum 29. Especially compared to the Thompson. British commandoes usually tossed the Sten for the MP-40 and the Beretta MAB-38. It is possible it was inspired by or copied from Swiss SIG Model 1920 Brevet Bergmann sub-machine gun? 18:20. Forgotten Weapons - British Submachine Gun Overview - Lanchester, Sten, Sterling, and More! Germany's World War I and II era submachine guns are all featured in this fully illustrated book Why ignore the Italians? 9x19mm SMGs used by Portugal included the Steyr as m/942, the Sten as m/943 (the Estado Novo adopted German Dreyse M13 LMGs and Mauser 98k rifles in 1937, but by 1943 leased bases in the Azores to the Allies, which netted British artillery, armored cars, and things like Sten guns. This should be tested in mp40 with original fp and one machined on the boltface and see if theres any difference perceived in shooting. 23:49. Imagine this old iron chambered for .45 auto and feeding from a box mag. ], length of barrel was 350 mm, muzzle velocity 415 m/s “including Portugal, Spain, China, Japan, and Ethiopia.” That means, the weapon is away for some time, at least two days or maybe for ever). – magazine capacity was 40 It was introduced into service in 1918 by the German Army during World War I as the primary weapon of the Sturmtruppen, assault groups specialized in trench combat.Although MP 18 production ended in the 1920s, its design formed the basis of most ⦠magazine” I’m persuaded by Dr. Dale Clark that the Lanchester is a copy of a copy of the MP.28,11. These are connected by a so-called ‘Schmeisserâs Cone’, forcing the two rows of cartridges into a single one. – harder to stop top-feed design, which use stick magazine (cf. or this mean between 700 and 900? http://modernfirearms.net/smg/switch/sig-1920-1930-e.html I am just guessing, though. Both systems were then at each otherâs throat for years, each with avid supporters.” [http://www.smallarmsoftheworld.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1791]. 2020-10-31: Steyr-Solothurn MP-34 in .45 ACP at the Range: 2020-10-30: Subguns for South America: the Steyr-Solothurn MP-34 in .45ACP: 2020 ⦠Particularly to the extent that it was really thought of as a very light support weapon — with ammo bearers, etc. or the recoil spring changed to compensate for a (slightly) lighter load? 6281 ⦠Despite only about 3000 MP18,Is making it to the front before the Armistice, they were extremely successful and established the submachinegun as a new class of weapon. Portuguese army and law enforcement purchased quantities of MP5s direct from West Germany. Why is the barrel so long? It was used rarely, for example in experimental Degtyaryov sub-machine gun from 1929, see photo here: The MP28,II was Hugo Schmeisserâs improved take on the original World War One MP18,I design. Photo provided by Max Popenker – thanks Max! Now I am not sure about chronology Arsenali püstolkuulipilduja was put into production in around 1927, when 28 in MP 28 suggest 1928.